To all the people who left nice comments - thank you.
To those of you who told me I didn't study hard enough and that I have a drinking problem - get real.
This is a blog post where I ask for opinions. I'm expecting to get many comments, because you guys LOVE leaving me comments with your opinions when I don't ask for them!
After the initial shock/devastation wore off, I spent a good part of the day on Saturday looking at my score report.
The pass rate for the Illinois bar exam in July of 2010 was about 85%, which is what it generally is. The pass rate for the February 2011 exam was apparently around 70%. Just my freaking luck.
Guess who would have passed if the pass rate had been 85%? Yup.
To add further insult to injury - the exam was scaled much harder this time. I'm not sure if that's normal for the February vs the July exam, but it freaking sucks. In July I got 95 of the multiple choice questions correct, which gave me a scaled score of 121 points on the multiple choice section. I got SIX MORE questions correct this time, and my scaled score was THE EXACT SAME. UNREAL. I also did significantly better on the essays this time. If the tests had been scaled the same way, based on my raw scores I would have easily had the 264 points necessary to pass.
But anyway, as much as the above facts royally SUCK, there's nothing I can do about it now.
I knew several people who failed the July exam. And I even have one friend who unfortunately failed again this time too (poor us, ugh). Except for one we all took BarBri in the summer.
My biggest gripe with the re-take process was that BarBri offered absolutely ZERO guidance as to how to approach re-taking the exam. They literally sent you a new lecture book and that was it. I had several conversations with my friends who were re-taking about what our approach was going to be this time, aka how we were going to do it differently. Some went to the lectures again, most of us didn't. Some concentrated on the harder subjects like secured transactions, commercial paper, etc., some wrote more essays, some did more MBE practice. We were just kind of on our own for trying to figure it out.
I concentrated on practice essays since I didn't do very many of them the first time around. I did much better on the essays this time around, but obviously not well enough.
And to make matters worse, it's not like I did significantly worse on a certain area of law so I can know to concentrate on that. For example, I got 4 out of 5 points on the Evidence essay, but did terribly on the Evidence multiple choice questions. Exact opposite for torts... Got 23/33 of the torts multiple choice questions correct (68th percentile), but somehow managed to only get a 1/5 on the freaking torts essay. So very frustrating.
No matter whether I take the Illinois or Texas bar, I'm not fooling with BarBri again. Their $3,000 one size fits all approach obviously didn't work for me, so it's time to try something different.
I've done a little bit of research, but I'm not sure what I'm going to use this time.
There are some programs that are geared toward re-takers... did anyone out there fail and then use one of these programs to pass later?
A friend of mine from law school was in the exact same situation- she failed IL twice, and passed on her third try. She used BarBri for all of her studying but only went to the lectures for that first summer. I agree that the lectures are pointless once you have all of the info filled in. She also went and looked at her exam (with the examiners?) and talked to them about why she failed. Maybe that's a good option? Good luck my dear.
ReplyDeleteHey lady. I dated a guy who passed the exam on his fourth try. He took barbri and this course: http://www.mler.org/preparation.php It's not just for minorities, but apparently is a really great way to force yourself to practice. My fiance also took this course, too, and he ended up tutoring for it for awhile afterwards. It's really tough, but I feel like that's what made the difference. If you choose to take IL again, this might be a good option.
ReplyDeleteBest of luck to you, lady. You will figure it out (meaning what to do and the damn exam).
I did MicroMash for the July exam because I didn't have time/money/patience for BarBri (I was a crazy person who was wedding planning/ bar prepping at the same time). They've started calling themselves MBE Edge (http://www.mbeedge.com) now and selling the MBE practice (which is a software that monitors how you do on questions and gears itself toward subjects with which you have a more difficult time). It's not expensive compared to BarBri ($395), but you have to supplement with something else for the MEE/MPT practice.
ReplyDeleteI liked it because I got a good bit of practice in and it didn't feel like it was as mind-numbing as trying to study out of the books. It also can do timing and a study or practice test mode, depending on what you want at the time. I think they have a demo you can download on the site to try it out. I wasn't a re-taker, but I definitely wasn't in the traditional BarBri path... and it helped me.
As for the exam, I don't think a lot of people grasp how difficult it is... or how much it varies from state to state. My states test was 2 MPTs, 6 MEEs, and the MBEs and took two days. Other states have state-specific essays or other requirements and some take three days. Also, as you pointed out above, the scoring is somewhat arbitrary and what is passing on one exam may not necessarily be so on another.
On a personal note, I have been reading your blog for quite awhile, and I think you are fabulous. It helped me so much to read someone being honest about law school, the bar, and beyond, especially when I was going through it all at the same time. Your courage to put everything out in the open, your grace to take the comments (solicited and unsolicited), your perseverance (as demonstrated above), your wonderful wit, your sense of humor, and all the other wonderful things about you-- well, the bar can't take those away. Nor can it undo what you've already accomplished like your education and your law degree.
You will pass the bar and make a fabulous attorney. Good luck, LF, and just know, there's a lot of support out here too :)
Sorry I am unhelpful in the re-take area, since I'm taking the IL bar in July for the first time, BUT from everything I have read, the February bar is always scaled harder than the July bar, because there are less bar-takers. Which means it really screws over the people who fail the July bar because unless you wait a whole YEAR to re-take, you basically have to do ALOT better the 2nd time.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a law girl, but I wish I could help. Just know I'm thinking about you and we all believe in you!!! You had some rotten luck this time around. Wishing you an umbrella drink and a week to relax! :-)
ReplyDeleteMBE MBE MBE! As a re-taker the biggest thing for me was to totally kick ass at multiple choice. I did 50 - 100 under timed conditions daily the last time (but I only had 4wks to study so you might not need that much) and my goal was to average 80% on each section every single time on practice questions. it took some work but I did it - my last full 200 question practice exam before the bar I got a 145 raw.
ReplyDeleteIf you can do get a high score on the MBE the essays are way less important. Also if you aren't already typing your exam - start typing. Also - outline your answers and make sure you are hitting at least 2/3 of the issues.
As for books - I didn't retake barbri - I bought the small outline book, MEE and MBE books. I also got a copy of the PMBR question books and MicroMash question book.
So I'm not taking the bar until July, but I think, based on a general test-taking perspective, I have to second what Sarah said. Especially with the outlines on the essay answers. I know the whole law school exams don't prep you for the bar, the bar doesn't prep you for practice bit, HOWEVER...Throughout law school, I did significantly higher on exams when I outlined my answers prior to starting to write out my answer. And it's the same thing here. You have to hit so many points, and especially since essays are where you can get partial credit, if you are running out of time and you know you have 3 more topics to discuss, but can't do it thoroughly, then you know what you need to at least mention.
ReplyDeleteAs far as repetition on the MBE, I agree with that as well. My school offers a supplemental bar prep course for 3Ls, and we do about 2-3 hours of MBE testing/lectures each Saturday. It sucks, but my scores are going up...slowly. It sounds like this time so much was out of your hands.
I wish I had more advice for you, but other than that, just keep working at it. Please. :)
Also, I might be making this up but isn't the February test usually harder than the July test, in most jurisdictions? Whether or not that's on purpose, I believe I've seen that sort of pattern.
I did outline and write out a TON of questions. At least 5 for every subject, more on certain subjects I felt less strong on.
ReplyDeleteAnd I did thousands of the practice MBE questions that BarBri gives you. Tiff - I am definitely going to look in to MBE Edge. Thanks.
Hi LF,
ReplyDeleteI'm not a law girl (I'm studying to get my masters in mental health counseling) so law is NOT my cup of tea and if I took the bar exam 20 times in a row, I would fail it.
I just wanted to wish you luck in whatever you decide. I think you need to take a week off, see your best girlfriends (or guy friends) and just enjoy your youth.
Whatever you decide, you'll do great at.
Jennifer in Washington (from Washington, DC but live in Washington State)
So, for me, repition was the most helpful thing for me. I found a list of "blackline" rules for each subject (I can try to find them for you) and then I started by copying each rule down by hand five times.
ReplyDeleteThen I retyped all the rules for each subject missing a few key words and printed 5 copies of each page out. I spent time going through and filling in the missing words...five times.
Then I retyped them and took out a few more words, printed the page out five more times and went through and filled in all the missing words.
Basically I did this until I could write down every single rule for each subject by memory. During the exam, when a question made me nervous, I'd shorthand the rules out. A lot of the time, in the midst of that, the answer would come to me. It was also REALLY helpful on the esasys becasue, as we all know, rule repition can equal points. (Stupid but true).
If this works for you great. If not, no big deal. Just passing it along.
I know you can do this.
Also, lets pretend I spelled repetition properly above. SHEESH.
ReplyDeleteDoes BarBri IL offer "Essay Advantage"? I was a 2 time Cali bar taker, and this class is the primary reason I passed the second time (once a week, covers all topics that could possibly be tested, super condensed and helpful outlines, etc). Hang in there!
ReplyDeleteOne of my friends failed the Florida Bar three times and passed the fourth time with Micromash. She used Barbari the first two, then nothing, then Micromash. Good luck and don't listen to all the stupid people!
ReplyDeleteBARBRI sucks. And I think for some people, it is REALLY not the best way to prep. I am sure that there are a lot of people that have not been able to pass with BARBRI, but have done well with other programs. I can’t really advise on that, but since you DO have the materials for BARBRI, I thought I’d share what worked for me.
ReplyDeleteI did a few things differently than most. I went through the question, outlined an answer (which it sounds like you did as well) and then, instead of writing out my own answer, I simply typed out the model answer, verbatim. I felt so comfortable with the format of what a perfect answer looked like by the end of my studying and I think that gave me a great advantage. The only time I wrote out actual answers was when I looked at this website: http://www.ncbex.org/multistate-tests/mee/
It gives you all the MEE questions from the past year’s test. I tried to write out my own model answer for all the July 2010 MEE questions.
For the MBE, I did all the practice questions that BARBRI gave out on the study smart software. In the last two weeks, I simply did a random set of 36 questions on there every few hours. I also kept doing all the questions until I had whittled it done to no new questions and then did ALL of the ones I got incorrect, ever. I usually remembered the answer, but reading over the explanation helped a lot, since these were the questions that had given me the most problems on the first go round. In addition to that, I got the big pink Kaplan PMBR book from a friend. I had heard that those questions were different (and sometimes more difficult) than BARBRI. I did about 10-15 practice questions on each subject from that book and I was missing more than I was getting. It took a bit, but I got myself familiar with their style of questions as well. I can’t really say which MBE style practice questions were most similar to the actual test, but I felt more confident being familiar with the big 2.
The only other thing I’d recommend is notecards. I NEVER did notecards in law school, but I made 1000’s while prepping for the exam. It was just another way to regurgitate black line law. I rarely looked at them after I made them, but just writing out the law in my own words helped it stick a bit.
I’m sorry that I’ve plugged up your comments with this verbose response! I wish you all the luck in the world on this next go round. I really thought you were going to pass this time. And do not listen to the naysayers. It seemed to me that you put in the effort and you just need some different study techniques to tailor studying to your learning style. It was brave of you to write this post and I hope you get a TON of advice. Good luck!
Honestly I think taking it again in July, even if you do basically what you did this time, you're much more likely to pass. In my state the pass rate in the summer is 80%, in the winter it's 49%. Other people are dragging down your scaled score in Feb.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine took it three times (July, Feb, July) before he passed. His raw score in Feb was way better than the first time and similar to his score when he passed the third time.
Other than that, I would just continue to do as many practice essays as possible. I think you're doing the right things you just need to try again.
Can you call the people at barbri or other test prep, get someone to go over your essays with you, and help you analyze them?
Hi, I am so sorry to hear you failed. You are right, it sucks! Ifailed in CA the first time. The second time I actually got a job working for the exam class people, it was called Bar Passer, and because i had to be there and run the class passed the second time. The gave me a lot of help the second time and I even had a second time mentor as they called it. I don't know if that's just a CA thing or not but you could check it out. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteI went to law school in CA and took/passed the TX bar in 2007. I did take Barbri, but as long as you have the materials, I don't think you need to classes. You just have to be very diligent about studying on your own. Though I did pass the first time, I actually think
ReplyDeleteI studied all wrong for the exam. I concentrated on studying the outlines and trying to UNDERSTAND all the law. Looking back, I should have just done a shit load of practice exams. I mean, there's only a limited number of ways they can ask about the same laws, right? And all of those "ways" are in the old exams.
Another thing about TX Bar exam - there's TX civ pro fill-in-the-blank. YUCK.
Good luck!
So. Obviously I haven't taken *any* barzams yet, but I did sit in on a lunchtime Kaplan presentation the other day (and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) (okay not really) and it almost had me ready to switch to them from Barbri. The guy's name was Steve something and he's basically spent the last gazillion years figuring out how to game the MBE. This guy personally tutored JFK Jr. after he had failed NY twice and after this guy got through with him he went from a 126 high on the MBE to like a 152 or something. His focus seems to be maybe a little less on learning so much black letter law (which I'm sure you know like the back of your hand by now) and more on how to spot common test question patterns and how to not fall for the wrong answer.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, obviously, I have no idea if Barbri does this same thing or not. Just thought I'd mention it since nobody has talked about Kaplan yet.
Not sure how you did on the MBE, but I had a lot of trouble with them in the beginning and was getting terrible scores. So what I started doing is looking at the ones I got wrong and writing down the rule on an index card - just one sentence. Then every other day or so, I would go over them and add to the pile as I did more MBE problems. Since so many of the rules are repetitive, it helped me because I kept getting the same answers wrong.
ReplyDeleteI have a close friend who took the Maryland bar exam 3 times before passing. She is one of the smartest people I know. And we used to work together - where she did better work than some of the "experienced" attorneys at that firm.
ReplyDeleteI think what tipped the scale for her was her approach to studying the third time. Like you, she took Bar Bri the first time, then did it on her own the second time. The third time she actually found basically a bar exam tutor. The person that helped her was able to read her essays and give her individualized feedback to help her improve essay scores.
For the MBE, while she definitely did a TON of practice questions, the tutor also went over the practice exams with her. They were able to zero in on the subjects she struggled with on the MBE. Not just general subjects, like torts and evidence, but specific areas within those topics. For example, she did well with criminal law/procedure overall, but had trouble with search and seizure questions.
I would look into something individualized like that.
Oh - also. The friend I was talking about above was able to find someone through her law school. She contacted the academic affairs office, and they put her in touch with a few people. She called around and spoke to each person on the phone before she chose someone.
ReplyDeleteI have no advice just know that I am sending you hugs and positive thoughts and I prayed for you at Mass on Sunday. I also had my 5th grade class at Catechism pray for you too:-)
ReplyDeleteSomething that helped me (that wasn't a Barbri method) was to create my own tests of the rules and then write out answers. That is the only way I can really, really learn something. Then, I graded myself. I seriously made these tests for all of the subjects and then kept taking them and taking them until I got the questions correct. For example, here are some questions from Crim Law (which you probably know already, but just FYI):
ReplyDelete1.Who has the burden of proof in a criminal proceeding?
2.What is the issue with vagueness and what are other similar constitutional rules for crimes? (I know this question is horrible but you get the picture.)
I also wrote a post about it on my blog:
http://chickinczech.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-experience-studying-for-bar-month.html
I was a first-time passer (but seriously, MO had like a 90% pass rate or something), so this isn't geared specifically to studying after not passing, but it may still be helpful.
Also, question: isn't your Barbri free anyway? They kept talking about a guarantee that your second or third time taking the course is free. Was that just in my state? If so, it couldn't hurt to just sign up for the class so you get all of the books again. Could you apply that to Texas if you decide to go?
I've been reading for a long time but I think this is the first time I'm commenting. For me, I did hundreds of flash cards that I created from the barbri mini conviser. It took me a lot longer to make them than the time I actually took to review them, but for me, writing things out is the key to remembering them. I spent pretty much 85% of my time on the MBE and 15% on the essays. For the MBE, I did questions every single day, and also used the barbri online program because it breaks down your weak areas for you. I did most of the barbri questions and I also took the 3 day PMBR course and did some of those questions too. (I still have the big book and there are tons of MC questions that I didn't do, I live in Chicago so if you want it - it is yours - I also have the PMBR outlines). I did the same thing for the Indiana bar - I just hammered out multiple choice questions. It also helps you learn what you need to know for some of the essays. For essays, all I can remember is just repeating what Kaufman taught us during Barbri for writing essays and I did it on every single essay. I feel like on the essays it isn't necessarily what you are telling them but how you tell them - I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that I made up a lot of stuff on both bar exams. I wish you tons of luck - you can definitely do this - and the bar is by no means any reflection on what a great attorney you are going to be. Not at all. Longest Coment Ever. I hope it is somewhat helpful!
ReplyDeleteWe have two attorneys/profs in my state that offer one on one tutoring and customize the bar prep for each person. I believe they do it for other states too. Do you want their information? Or I can see if they do IL too. I have a friend that swears by them. One of them was one of my profs and he said he would get calls from people who have had to take the bar 4 or 5 times and they come to him and bam they pass the next time. Maybe there is someone where you are that does that...I could check with them to see if they know anyone in Chicago... Let me know hon...I'm here to help in any way I can! Love ya & you are still FABULOUS!!!!
ReplyDeleteI took a second bar a year and a half after I took my first one. I know that's not the same thing, but I think one of the major challenges is the same. I found that I kept glossing over things because I remembered learning *about* them but not actually what it was that I had learned. The only way I found to combat that was to test myself early and often. It helped keep me honest about how effective my studying really was.
ReplyDeleteAnd in the column of not advice but commiseration: The February bar *is* scaled harder. And any bar is a crapshoot. The amount of information you are expected to retain is so vastly out of proportion to what they actually test on, it's ridiculous. I'm so sorry the chips didn't fall your way ... good luck on moving forward!
One of my best friends failed the CA bar with barbri and passed the second time with Kaplan. She liked Kaplan a lot better.
ReplyDeleteBTW - I bought Kaplan/PMBR's QBank for the MBE because I was told by a ton of people that BarBri's MBE is completely insufficient. Their questions were much harder and more similar to the actual exam. If I could have taken Kaplan completely instead of BarBri I would have, but NV doesn't offer that. They also give you a set of lectures on all the MBE subjects that I listened to when I didn't get something BarBri was talking about.
ReplyDeleteMicromash!
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure it is the only reason I passed the bar. It's MBE only but looking at the raw scores you posted and how close you are, an MBE score jump may make the difference you need.
I definitely think it was/is worth the money and I think it was more expensive when I used it.
Hey! I like reading your blog from time to time and just saw your recent posts and wanted to comment. I'm so sorry about the bar and I know you are feeling horrible right now, but stay strong and push through and this shitty "speed bump" in your life will soon be over.
ReplyDeleteI took the IL bar last July too and failed. I took BarBri and followed what they said as far as what practice questions to do for multiple choice each night...it was NOT enough! I later found that the Kaplan questions were more like the questions on the bar and I realized that only doing 18-36 questions a night was not enough. In July I took a 200 MC test a week out before the bar and only scored a 99 and then got a raw score of 104 on the bar. For the Feb. bar I decided that I was going to take Kaplan instead. They offer way more MC practice questions than BarBri. I would do 33-50 questions every night and then took two 200 MC exams and one 100 MC exam while studying. This time a week out I got 122 out of 200, which was a huge improvement, since MC has always ween super hard for me. As far as the essays go, I used only the outlines that were given from barbri to memorize the law and then used the Kaplan Essay book and went through almost all of the essays and would mostly just outline the answers and then read through their answers to see what they were looking for. I would take any law that was not on the Barbri outlines and add it to them. Doing a ton more MC helped me a great deal and reading through all of the essay answers. Also, Kaplan has you do a full bar exam about 10 days out, which Barbri does not and I thought that was extremely helpful.
I definitely think that Kaplan is better for MC and if you stick with what they tell you to do for MC, you will be able to improve your MC score. I hope this all helps! If you have any more questions about Kaplan, let me know. I can also put you in contact with one of the Chicago Kaplan Reps, Leslye, she is awesome and super helpful and encouraging.
You can reach me at christina.morrison16@gmail.com
Take care,
Chrissy
First of all, you rock and are so awesome for putting your head down and going at this thing again. I found that supplementing BarBri with AdaptiBar and Kaplan questions worked best for me. I took the NC Bar in July 2009 and found that the Kaplan MBE questions were definitely more difficult than the BarBri ones - I thought they were much more along the lines of the real MBE questions. Kaplan has changed its format since I took it so I'm not sure how expensive or extensive it is now. AdaptiBar is an online course that just provides oodles and oodles of MBE questions to practice and really breaks down where your weaknesses are. I'm not sure what the scoring % is for IL but for NC it was 60% essay, 40% MBE. It is easy to knock out MBE questions because they are easier to do and score but be sure to really focus on what the percentage is too. I saw above that you did a lot of essays so keep up that good work.
ReplyDeleteI know the fact that I took Kaplan, BarBri, and AdaptiBar seems like overkill but I couldn't have done it with BarBri alone.
You've got this!!! We all believe in you and know you can do it. xoxo
And don't forget, the BarBri Conviser outline is your BFF. All the time! Even if you use another program.
ReplyDeleteSo, I've been following your blog for quite a while. You and my husband were studying for the July bar at the same time and we both enjoyed relating with you through your humor because the stress was seriously overwhelming...for both of us. He took the CA July bar (second time) and passed (thank the Lord!!). He swears by getting a private tutor. They tailor your test prep towards what you need to work on and they test you, grade you and then help you tweak your answers to give the graders what they want. We paid less for the tutor than we did for the BarBri (this first time around). My husband seems a lot like you...college was very easy for him. He excelled with minimal effort, law school was a struggle but he still did well. You two seem like similar students so maybe some one on one work will make your third time your last! We both wish you the best of luck! You can do this! Your numbers already proove it! (also, in CA at least, the Feb Bar is notoriously harder)
ReplyDeleteBest,
Maureen (& Matt)
So I never comment but I've been reading your blog for a while. I'm about to graduate and start the bar prep process myself this summer. I don't know which law school you attended, but I know my law school has an academic support program and that program works with alums who fail the bar exam. We have one professor whose job it is to work with those students to create a strategy to pass. This seems obvious, but if I wasn't taking the school bar prep class now I would not have realized we had this program. Have you considered checking with your schools academic support program? That would be my suggestion.
ReplyDeleteI know how devastating this must be for you, but just remember that JFK Jr failed the NY bar twice and Hillary Clinton failed in DC bar the first time out. You'll be JUST fine! Stay strong and good luck!
PS- I'd also suggest perhaps getting a personal tutor might be more helpful for you. I know it is expensive but it is much more helpful than Barbri or Kaplan. And the person can tailor studying with you to your specific weaknesses, so you are not wasting time studying the areas you know.
ReplyDeleteI'm lucky to be in Wisconsin where we don't have to take a bar exam (thank sweet baby Jesus for that). But I have friends who are moving out of state and I've heard good things about Kaplan. For whatever that's worth.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this... keep your chin up and hang in there.