Law school grads use deferred time to work at legal aid groups -
Benefits flow both ways: New lawyers gain experience with people, courts; agencies help more poor clients
I have mixed feelings on this topic... on one hand, that's all fine and good... I'm all for new lawyers helping out, but on the other hand, what about those of us (me me me!) who actually went to law school to do public interest work? And aren't just biding our time until we get a chance to make six figures slaving away for the man?
I have a lot of friends who want to do public interest law (that's the nature of participating in a public interest clinic!), and we have the same loans as everyone else (fml), and not a single one of us has a job.
Fabulous readers - what are your thoughts on this? Am I being bitchy (probably)? Do I need to get over the fact that the jobs I want are being taken by classmates with higher grades who are just waiting until their firm can pay them?
Do I have any readers out there who are deferred and looking to take jobs from me for a year? (jk... sort of). Any of you want to do public interest law but can't find jobs?
i do'nt have mixed feelings. i think it sucks and i can't wait to bid my time at home depot or dunkin' donuts for public interest jobs to open up because people who are going to make 4 times what Ill make at my freakin' dream job are done bidding their time.
ReplyDeleteok maybe i do - i mean im glad they are helping.. except that they are doing it because their firm is paying them a stipend (roughly double the starting salary in the position they are filing) Not because they give a shit.
Im just bitter because im looking at $200K to pay off wiht a babysitting job.
not that anyone should hire me. I can't spell.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe they are taking jobs that are there by volunteering their time in public interest. They are being paid by the firm that has delayed their start date. I (have to) believe that if the public interest firm had job openings that they could pay for would still hire someone that wants that particular job and plans on staying longer than their deferment allows. It would allow the public interest sector to offer more help to more people. The sad state of affairs, in my opinion, is the fact that even if these people weren't there to offer their time (and pick up a pay check/stipend from their original firm) there still wouldn't be a job open for the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteSorry...it is Easter Sunday and I am required to look at the good side of the coin! Ask me tomorrow and my response may be, "It sucks and they should have to work at home depot or dunkin' donuts instead!" ;)
Happy Easter LF!
I have mixed feelings about this because the deferred associates that I know about aren't taking jobs I'm interested in. HOWEVER I'm more bothered by the fact that these associates wouldn't have considered these jobs at all had it not been for the deferral program AND the fact that their firms are paying them better than the average public interest salary. This sucks for people truly interested in public interest gigs. To me the whole deferral/nonprofit arrangement is more about polishing big law's image by making them to appear concerned about the public interest while also finding work for deferred associates. Win-win but something is unsavory about it to me. I'm def. tired of reading articles on deferred associates gushing about how much real lawyering they've done at their nonprofit jobs. If you were in clinic instead of cite-checking at law journal during law school you would've done most of this stuff already!
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm not cynical at all :)
I only allow myself to do one good deed a month, otherwise people find out I'm not the huge bitch I give off at first impression. Keep networking...it's the only way that I got a job, and most of my friends with jobs have gotten them in the last few years.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the thing that has bothered me the most are not deferrals, especially the ones whose firms are paying them to basically volunteer. What has bothered me the past two years are the people who desperately want to work in big law, have stated that as their goal the entire time, are unable to find said jobs and are basically going into jobs that they do not want and are not particularly thrilled with and are being chosen because of (1) grades, (2) law review and (3) lying their ass off in interviews.
ReplyDeleteI know everyone needs a job, I begrudge no one a job in this time. There is just a part of me that wants to bitch slap some folks so they look behind them at all the people who wanted to be in that position (DA's office, Fed job, even environmental lobbyist office(okay, this person I blame for a myriad of reasons, the top being s/he wants nothing to do with enviro law)) from day one of law school (or even before).
I know I am being irrational, but something just seems wrong here.
IS VERY GOOD..............................
ReplyDeleteI saw this on ATL and I thought you might find it interesting
ReplyDeletehttp://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/in-chicago-deferred-lawyers-a-big-hit-with-public-interest-organizations/
-Jason
I think its reflective of the long-term reality for people that want to work in public interest. Most people don't go into biglaw with the intention of staying anyway. They did it to make money to go do public interest or govt jobs later. So they made a conscience choice to get grades / do law review that would allow them to do biglaw first. All they are doing with their deferral is building connections they will need later. These people would be your competition in 3-4 years anyway, so this is really nothing but a preview of how life will be in the long run for you.
ReplyDeleteIt may suck but unless you did everything you could in law school to get the best grades you were capable of, the best experience through internships or clerk gigs, and the best recommendations it is hard to feel sorry for you. I'll feel sorry for my friends and those people who did all that and are still jobless.
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I agree with you; I think it's bush league. In fact, when I was offered public interest jobs out of law school, I turned them down b/c I didn't want to be in public interest. Frankly, I'm not boo-hooing that associates at big firms are being deferred. I don't feel bad for them. They'll be making $150K starting, which is insane for researching all day.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's great to volunteer, but are their hearts in it? NO. So are they doing as good of a job as someone who wants to do PI law? Probably not.
As an aside, my law school has tons of Public Interest postings, if you're ever interested.
I never thought I would want to do public interest work, but after participating in an Elder Law clinic at school for low income elderly people, I had a change of heart...but I'm with you. All the cats in my class with better grades and higher rankings and dang Law Review on their resume are snatching up everything...even the lower-income public interest stuff, just to bide their time.
ReplyDeleteI can see your point. In a perfect world, there would be jobs for everyone, and everyone would get to do what they want. I personally want to go into government law (state/fed). However, I have issues with people complaining that those that want to be in biglaw essentially 'stealing' the public interests jobs 'just because' they got good grades, were on law review, etc etc. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be angry if I found out that X person got a job over me, even though they didn't really care about helping people. HOWEVER, if this isn't incentive more than anything to do everything you can in law school, I don't know what is. Because apparently, walking into a job interview and saying "I know I'm in the bottom quarter of my class, but I really want to help people so you should hire me" just isn't going to cut it.(not sure if it ever would have cut it, but maybe some people used to think they could get a job this way?)
ReplyDeleteI think it's important to differentiate between those who take a public interest job just because they can't find a biglaw job, and those that are temporarily *volunteering* at a public interest firm while deferred from biglaw.
ReplyDeleteI'm one of those deferred associates in the latter category, currently doing work for a public interest placement in NYC. I was given a stipend for the year (FYI: it is no where near twice the salary of a entry-level public defender, in fact it's essentially the same--however minus health insurance), and instead of taking the money and traveling, I decided that I wanted to put my degrees and abilities to good work. I sent my resume out to various non-profits offering to work for free for the year and was given a great opportunity. My organization hired the *same* number of new attorneys this year as they have in years past (based on public funding and budgets). The only thing that has changed is that we're now able to help more people and do more appeals based on the number of deferred interns that are working here (there are several of us).
Here's a quick summary of my experience: (Disclaimer: although I worked for a public defender after my 1L year in law school, I did not participate in any clinics or plan on doing public interest work full-time after I graduated). I went through the same month-long training, have the same caseload, do the same amount of work, and am just as emotionally invested in my job this year as the other hires. True, I am leaving in October, but for 12 months I am a valuable asset to the other attorneys by helping relieve their incredible caseload and creating contacts with a great organization (I also plan on doing my 15% firm pro bono work in indigent criminal defense).
I understand law students' frustration at the lack of paying jobs in general, but I do not think it is fair to characterize deferred associates as "stealing" jobs--particularly when I could easily be traveling through Southeast Asia with my stipend as opposed to volunteering my time and getting vomited on in the pens. In my experience, and from what I hear from my fellow deferrees, we're there to temporarily lighten to the load and expand services, not to save non-profits money by providing them cheap labor. There are enough indigent criminals to go around for everyone, believe me.
For what it's worth, I was on law review and think it was great practice for writing appellate briefs--something I do regularly now.
I agree and felt the same way when friends of mine started getting deferred. Here is my advice as a fellow public-interest oriented 1-year-out lawyer. VOLUNTEER as much as possible while you search for a job. At least in DC jobs didn't start to open up until Dec-Feb. Make connections, build skills, and go to a lot of meetings. It really pays off. And, in the mean time, apply to clerk for a year (after a year of volunteering) to get a great experience and wait out the economy. That's been my path and its worked out OK for now.
ReplyDelete